Tsun tsun~

Ada, he has seen through your tsundere act long time ago, you can complain all you want~ I hope you like today’s page! Sweet moment continues next week and after that we’ll move to see what others are doing. If you were following vote incentives carefully you probably already know the queue ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ

Nothing to announce this week, as I’ve been busy with that thing called ‘life’ and didn’t manage to make anything extra. Maybe next week will be more fruitful.

And hey, do you guys use any social media sites? Like Facebook, Twitter or whatever is currently popular? I am not good with those things but if there is anything I could do to help spread the word about Replay I am all ears. Being sociable and reaching out to potential audience is the hardest thing for me ლ(o◡oლ) Seriously, big thanks for your votes because this helps a ton.

Btw… Do you think they’ll end up together? ๏◡๏

100 comments on “Tsun tsun~”

  1. Petey Reply

    You could post the pages on an app called iFunny to get followers there, it’s really popular with teenagers, and I personally use Twitter a lot

      • Petey Reply

        TwoKinds does it although it’s not hosted by Tom. It’s a good alternative to people who are too busy to sit down on a computer just to see one page. People can follow the account and get the page in their feed whenever you post it. For me it’s nice to see that Twokinds has updated on my phone so then I know to check the site later and see it in full resolution

        • NotImportant NotImportant Reply

          I will have to try it once I figure out how to make the Twitter account a bit more popular (because it does the same thing, letting people know about the update). Thanks!

    • Posessed madman Reply

      I’d follow it on ifunny, in fact I know a few kids on there that’d likely like your
      comic (they also post a lot of popular comics freefall, twokinds, housepets, and a few others)
      so I’ll ask them to read and give you a shout out. Some of these guys have over 1,000 folowers.

  2. Anonymous K Reply

    I thought about making another tree pun but I decided to turn over a new leaf and think of better puns.

  3. Zero Reply

    NI, they’ve been fan-shipped since the beginning. (claiming partial responsibility)

    Of course I think they’ll end up together.

    • Refugnic Reply

      They’re a typical default pairing, Zero. So of course they would be shipped from the beginning, because that’s the whole purpose of a default pairing.

      For those unfamiliar with what I mean (also because I’m not certain if that’s the official term or not): A default pairing is a pair of characters which share a bond pretty much straight from the start. For example Robert and Ada have shared most of their life together and the end of the world put them into a tight spot in regards of ‘other options’. Sure, they are there, but you’re never going to find someone you can trust (which is the base of any relationship) as much as that specific person.

      A default pairing I’ve used were Simon and Miranda from my story ‘The forgotten legacy’. I’m not going to bother you with the details, since you most likely never have read it nor ever will, however the situation was somewhat similar. Shit hit the fan and these two were together when it happened. That’s a bonus not easily done away with, to say the least.

      *Ahem*…but yeah, a really cute sight to behold, that’s for sure. 🙂

    • NotImportant NotImportant Reply

      For some reason I was under the impression that there were more Ada x Faust fans than Ada x Robert ones. Of course pairing her with an introduced villain seems way more interesting and dynamic but it’d be no fun if everyone wanted the same pairings, right? Well, once the main cast comes together there will be even more possibilities ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

      • Refugnic Reply

        Really? I am not in the loop with who ships whom, but I was under the impression that the Ada x Robert fraction was stronger, simply because it’s one of the obvious ones.

        Speaking of pairings…while Nina and Filip are an Item right now (at least from my understanding), for some reason I don’t see it holding all that firmly. It’s just a hunch and I really don’t know close to enough to come to any logical conclusion, but you know how it is…feelings, irrational bastards. 😛

      • Refugnic Reply

        There was a joke sitting in the back of my mind. I had thought, that I had read it in English, but apparently I was wrong.

        It relates to the FSK (Freiwillige Selbstkontrolle), a rating system for videos and the likes, much like the MPAA ratings (PG, R, etc.).
        The rating system works pretty simple: FSK Minimum_Age, so FSK 0 means: Suited for people of all ages, whereas FSK 12 means: Suited for children of 12 years and older.

        Okay, now with that explanation out of the way (I killed the joke before even telling it, yay! :D)

        FSK 10 (PG) – The hero gets the girl.
        FSK 12 (PG-13) – The cool guy gets the girl.
        FSK 16 (R) – The bad guy gets the girl.
        FSK 18 (NC-17/Mature) – Everyone gets the girl.

        Now, dear NI…how would you rate your story? 😉

          • Refugnic

            That would be GA then, or FSK 0. 😀

            I wish to note, that you can invert that just fine, assuming that the lead character is female (and straight):

            The heroine gets the guy
            The girl with questionable morals (a.k.a. cool) gets the guy
            The villainess gets the guy

            For the last one I remember a nursery rhyme with a bus and its wheels…
            The poor guy it goes around, around,
            round and round,
            round and round…:D

            But then again, I think the list would…or much rather should actually look different for female leads, because the girl might actually not be interested in ‘getting the guy’ to begin with, but much rather seeks her happiness in independence.

            But starting from the inverted list…where would we classify Ada? Personally, I don’t see her as ‘Heroine’ (being a hero sucks anyway, you can ask any of my characters :P).

            Right now, I’m opting for FSK 12 (the cool girl), though I’m not ruling out the role of villainess (how is that not a word? Sheesh, sexist language, as if girls couldn’t be evil :P) for her either.

          • NotImportant NotImportant

            She’s obviously the evil mastermind! You’ll see! ლ(o◡oლ)

          • Refugnic

            Heh…I do see where you’re coming from.

            I’ve recently started playing the game ‘Overlord’, where you lead your minions of darkness into the field to spread death and destruction among the general populace…however, except for a whole lot of sheep, the people could well mistake me for a freaking hero, the way I walk around! 😀

            So yeah, alignments are fluent. 😛

          • Zero

            You forgot the other FSK 18 refu.

            Where the (hero/cool guy/bad guy) get’s all the girls.

          • Refugnic

            Well, FSK 18 is listed, however you’re right, I only stated the one flavor of FSK 18+.

            Besides, there’s only so much one guy can dish out in a short period.

            Now the female FSK 18 flavor (The heroine gets all the guys) is far more possible, albeit, I imagine, also pretty painful. 😀

          • Zero

            As far as the male perspective of harem outcome, you’d be surprised.

      • JW Reply

        I don’t think we’ve seen enough of Faust to ship him anywhere, I mean, with anyone.

        If Ada is officially tsundere, then the pairing with Robert becomes a lot more likely.
        However, I hope for something more interesting (in spite of such hopes having been dashed countless times by various anime).

        • Refugnic Reply

          We haven’t seen enough of about anyone to ship them with anyone else. We have their name, their looks and some basic character info. That’s it.

          Robert and Ada, being the MCs and all, we know most about. Them being friends before all of that started, suggests a likely pairing (in times of strife, you stick to what (and whom) you know.)

          Oh? Why did that make it ‘a lot more likely’? Because she’s being so cold to Robert and because that’s a key aspect of any Tsundere (she likes you but denies it with all her power)? Well of course she likes him. They’ve been friends forever and there’s been romantic tension even before all of that started.

          However, that does not automatically mean, that Robert is going to be the one she ends up with.
          I believe to remember, that Robert classified the ‘Red Desert’-strip a ‘pleasant dream’, which is distinctively different from the visions they like to have every now and then.

          As such, it’s not that unlikely that Ada and Robert aren’t going to end this thing together.
          I like to remember that one shirt Ada wears. ‘I have a soft spot for evil’.
          It doesn’t get much more evil than the guy who destroyed the world, does it? 😉

          • JW

            Oh? Why did that make it ‘a lot more likely’?

            Because of tropes. Tsunderes tend to fall for a certain type of guy who fulfills a certain type of role in the story.

  4. Rick Brewster Reply

    The problem (or more correctly, a problem) with default pairing, at least IRL in times of stress, is that sometimes when the crisis is over they find that although they worked well together, it was the crisis they shared. One (or at least this one) hopes that by the end the fences will have come down and they will see the real value in each other. That’s the advantage of a piece of fiction, it can turn out however the author wishes.

    • Refugnic Reply

      Yup, you’re precisely right. That is why these pairings would do well to forge a bond that will last beyond the scope of the current crisis. You know, bonds turning into actual love. This usually happens, if the crisis lasts long enough (I’m talking about the scope of years). However, on the upside, I don’t see this particular crisis end in the next two months, so yeah…chances are good, Ladies and Gentlemen.

      At least until new (or much rather actual) Rivals appear. Now that’ll be fun to watch. 🙂

      …I’m a terrible person, am I not?

  5. Refugnic Reply

    I once came across another webcomic, which had the title of this page as the page description. The following page was aptly described as ‘Dere Dere’.
    I’m looking forward to that one, actually. It’s nice to allow them a little breather, even though the moment can never last.

    • NotImportant NotImportant Reply

      And here I thought I’d be somewhat original… (ノಥ益ಥ)ノ ┻━┻
      No, I’m kidding, I didn’t, and next page will be called Dere dere~ so you guessed right here.

      • Refugnic Reply

        You probably read the same webcomic then. 😛

        Besides, originality is a concept every writer and artist must kiss goodbye at the beginning of their career, because no matter what you have them say, do or experience, it has already been around in one form or another.

        This realization discourages a lot of budding artists so much, that they stop, failing to see the point of art.

        I’m glad that you already learned this lesson and that it didn’t make you give up. 😉

        • NotImportant NotImportant Reply

          No, I didn’t say I saw it anywhere else, I just ASSUMED it was used before, as this is a rather simple idea.
          And you know? I never quite aimed to be a pioneer, I just wanted to draw, write and have fun, that’s all. I never really wanted to be a well know and recognized artist. I am just sitting here, doing things, not giving a damn~

          • Refugnic

            And yet you are on the best way to be a well known and well recognized artist, simply by sitting there, doing your thing and not giving a damn…THAT’s my problem! I care too much! 😀

          • NotImportant NotImportant

            To be honest with you there was a point in my life when I cared too much and it ruined everything for me. When I was drawing and making tutorials for people who wanted to learn from me I really wanted to give them something every week. So I tried and struggled and cared and wondered and suddenly drawing stopped to be fun and started to be a burden. Ultimately I stopped caring and returned to my old self after realizing that I stopped drawing what I really wanted to draw because ‘it wouldn’t make a good tutorial’. Well, to hell with that, if they want better tutorials they can go somewhere else~
            It’s okay to care, we should care. But we should never let that feeling limit our creativity or burden us.

  6. Refugnic Reply

    Oh, regarding the alt text…don’t you mean ‘Get a tent’? 😉
    Besides, who’s supposed to care right now? All those who would area long dead and all those who remain are too busy with picking up their own pieces to mind…oh and those who aren’t busy picking up pieces are freaking voyeurs, who most certainly don’t mind getting to watch. That last group would be us. 😀

    • NotImportant NotImportant Reply

      Of course I mean us, although if I put them in a tent right now… they’d probably just fall asleep ಠ_ಠ
      And tent is better, I’m changing the description~

      • Refugnic Reply

        I don’t see how a tent is that much different from sitting under a tree, the warm rays of the sun throwing spots of light through the dense foliage while the wind sings his lullaby in the whisper of the leaves is any more ‘keeping them awake’ than sitting in a plain old tent is.

        What’s keeping them awake is the adrenaline in their bodies, so once that fades, they’ll probably fall asleep, tent or not. 😉

  7. SKy Reply

    You might want to give Twitter a try. Use a name like “Replay Comic” and comment on/retweet other (comic) artist’s tweets and you should get some attention. To hold that you might tweet some story/art teasers (-> “headless demon rampage!”). Also, to finally get them to the comic itself:
    – New page is up! Get a tent you two! (ノ ゜Д゜)ノ ︵ ┻━┻ [link]

    At least that’s what would get me…

  8. Gypsy Reply

    This is one of the most interesting and most beautifully drawn webcomics I have see so far. Your use of lighting and colour is absolutely breathtaking and your characters expressions are amazing! I just really wanted to let you know that! I hope to publish my own webcomic in the very near future, and I really hope it turns out as good as Replay. Please keep up the good work, you are amazing!

    • NotImportant NotImportant Reply

      Thank you so much! I am truly very happy to hear that. (づ ̄ ³ ̄)づ ♥
      And all the best with your webcomic, may it turn out even better than Replay! I have learned a ton along the way, making comics is hard work but extremely rewarding. Good luck!

    • Refugnic Reply

      We may need an automatic line break for comments like that. 😀

      If it’s of any comfort, I don’t think the last card is played already with these two.
      There’s a lot more strife to come and strife comes with stress…and stress can steer even the best relationship into a nice little wreck.

      One wrong word and Boom.

    • NotImportant NotImportant Reply

      Sorry! I have edited your comment, but I hope cutting out some of ‘U’s didn’t destroy the general message you were trying to convey lol
      And come on, it’s chapter I, we are barely starting to get to know them, no way I’m going to let them be all loveydovey and happy like this, pfff ಠ_ಠ

      • Refugnic Reply

        Exactly what I was saying. Maybe I should’ve added that artists in general and story writers are sadists, some more, some less, simply because ‘happiness’ is plain poison for any story. I mean, who would want to read about a perfect world? 😉

        • drakwithout Reply

          i cant deal with this right now
          i just had blood drawn

          ….

          i’m going to go draw vivid pictures of ada as a vampire

        • JW Reply

          ‘happiness’ is plain poison for any story.

          That’s not quite true, I think. Sure, the best stories I’ve read entail exquisite psychological torture of the main characters. However, I’ve also watched plenty of anime where essentially nothing bad happens and which just lift my mood like there’s no tomorrow (no wait, that would be depressing), I mean, like there is a tomorrow and it will be great.
          Though I’ll concede that it’s sometimes debatable how much story/plot they contain. But not every story has to be a struggle.

          I mean, who would want to read about a perfect world?

          Well, what would make for a perfect world? If it’s perfect, than it should be interesting, fun, exciting; sounds good so far.
          I never quite understand people who think (or imply) perfect = boring; that’s a strange definition of perfect. And if you reach the conclusion that perfection can’t exist (because of competing demands), then reading about an impossible world sounds even more interesting.

          • Refugnic

            Welcome back, JW. I was starting to wonder when you’d pop up, to be honest. 🙂

            Life itself is a continuous struggle, as such, struggling characters are far more relate-able then characters who never have to struggle, either because the world serves them anything on a silver platter or because they are just so damn good/powerful that they wouldn’t even need a world to struggle against.
            Neither of these scenarios makes for very good characters in my opinion, also because much of the story telling is about the growth of these characters and ‘growth’ is always facilitated by a necessity.

            If everything is alright and just dandy, just why would you want/need to change?

            Assuming you’ve got the same routine every single day and this routine works flawlessly and efficiently and what not…except for the obvious problem of boredom, why would you change this routine despite knowing that it’s the best thing you’re ever going to get? I doubt you would.

            And while you’re right that not every story has to be a struggle, it’s one of the basic elements…and one can only watch singing and dancing happy people for so long before considering it ‘stupid’. (I have a little kid, I think I know what I’m talking about right here ;))

            Back to the topic of perfection, eh? In a perfect world, boredom would not exist, but not because it’s fun or exciting, but because the very emotion would have been done away with. After all it’s a hassle in the eyes of perfection. As such, reading about a perfect world would be boring for us to read/hear about, but those who live there would not be bored, simply for the reasons I stated.

            And if you want to read about an impossible world, you need to define ‘impossible’ all the same. Impossible by which standards? In a sandbox, where the laws of physics are at your whim, where living creatures are nothing but puppets you get to make dance any way you want, pray tell me, what does ‘impossible’ even mean there?

            Impossible only becomes possible, if there is some sort of ground rule, something you cannot change, no matter what.
            At that moment, ‘impossible’ becomes possible and it is defined as ‘Contradicting a rule that cannot be overcome’.

            In our stories, we are pretty much Gods. We define the rules of our universes.
            As such, by this very definition, everything is possible, if we so wish.
            Even perfection. But, as we already established, perfection is either boring or infuriating to read about.
            Neither is desirable.

            Wouldn’t you agree? 🙂

          • JW

            Assuming you’ve got the same routine every single day and this routine works flawlessly and efficiently and what not…except for the obvious problem of boredom, why would you change this routine despite knowing that it’s the best thing you’re ever going to get? I doubt you would.

            Ever hear of middle-life crisis?
            Lot’s of people get fed up with their bored lives and decide to radically change “something”. If the “best thing ever” is boring, most people quickly stop considering it to be very good. And even if it isn’t boring, due to habituation, people will soon stop thinking it’s the best ever; people get used to pretty much anything eventually.

            And while you’re right that not every story has to be a struggle, it’s one of the basic elements…and one can only watch singing and dancing happy people for so long before considering it ‘stupid’. (I have a little kid, I think I know what I’m talking about right here ;))

            I know some people say that every happy family is happy in the same way, whereas every miserable family is miserable in their own (interesting) way. But you can actually have a lot of variation of interaction between characters that are just generally happy, living their simple lives, not fighting to overcome some great internal or external evil. It doesn’t have to be the same thing over and over again anymore than the seven basic plots that (according to some) make up all stories.

            And my condolences on having to watch kids-shows that apparently can’t manage to add a level that’s interesting to adults.

            Back to the topic of perfection, eh? In a perfect world, boredom would not exist, but not because it’s fun or exciting, but because the very emotion would have been done away with.

            “Done away with” ? That doesn’t sound perfect to me.
            That’s like achieving world peace by killing everyone. Except not even technically achieving the goal.

            And if you want to read about an impossible world, you need to define ‘impossible’ all the same. Impossible by which standards?

            As I implied: logically inconsistent. i.e. if perfection entails properties that cannot exist at the same time.

            Wouldn’t you agree? 🙂

            Obviously not, because your idea of “perfection” is far from what I’d call perfection.

          • Refugnic

            Yes, I did hear of that. Which is why I added the exception ‘boredom’ to my statement. Yes, people do get bored easily and boredom is an essential drive in ourselves, because it keeps us moving and moving ahead is essential for growth as I already stated. However if we add boredom to the mix, we’re back to strife, because in that case we fight ourselves, more precisely the rationale ‘Let things stay the same, after all they’re working’ and this nagging feeling of ‘What if there really is some way to do it better?’. Conflict can start as small as that. 🙂

            I agree on the ‘get used to pretty much anything’ though. Alarmingly quickly at that, if I may add.

            Erm…I never said that it has to be some ‘great internal or external evil’. It’s just easier to have a defined enemy (ask the American and the Russians, those guys just love to hate each other according to what I hear :P).
            Anyway, as I stated above, struggles and conflicts start in the smallest scales. It arises each time two people with two different opinions meet. And, as we already established a while ago, opinions are like assholes. And to top it all off, no two opinions are exactly the same. Many are similar, but no two are ever quite the same. Our society and our entire life is based on compromises, with which we seek to avoid open conflict, but even agreeing to a compromise is a conflict between your own needs and wants and the desires of the other. Each one hurts a little bit, but are direly necessary for our society to work.

            Then of course there’s that special case, where one sets the rules and everyone has to compromise. That’s a breeding ground for open conflict. On a large scale it can even be called a revolution or something. The one who doesn’t compromise inevitably become the ‘greater evil’, as he is the target of all the hurt the others had to take because they had to compromise…or much other obey to his will.

            Eh, he’s not even 2 years old and the shows are supposed to help make him sleep, so I guess they’re doing their job.
            I trust his tastes will improve as he progresses in age.

            As I said before, it’s all a matter of definition.
            If we define a ‘perfect world’ as one without conflict, strife, hunger, pain and what not, then the sources for all of these things need to be removed.
            Essentially it all boils down to the will of the individual, because that’s the source of 99 % of the conflicts we have today.

            Regarding the ‘doesn’t sound perfect’…for us it doesn’t, no. Because we have all of these emotions and (more or less) free will and opinions and conflict and strife and all that stuff. We are used to having them and, as we are creatures of habit, having to give them up feels terrible for us.
            However I wasn’t talking about a perfect world for us (as stated: Such a thing cannot exist), but much rather an imaginary ‘perfect world’, where none of the bad things exist.

            If we are to look for ‘perfection’ in this world of ours, I believe we would need to look towards the grand void.
            For in a single spot in the vastness of space, there is no conflict. No strife. No hatred. There’s just emptiness.
            So, by this logic, it would be perfect in and by itself. When adding imperfect creatures like ourselves to this spot, it becomes tainted with our imperfection and become imperfect itself until we go away again.

            That’s what I said, actually. However this can only happen if some ground rules are applied. In the beginning of a story, at the sight of a blank space, anything is possible. Which is why a ‘truly impossible but yet consistent world’ cannot exist. What can exist however is a poorly written world, which is full of contradictions, where the rules are thrown out of the window at every third turn. Now tell me, would such a world be fun to read about?

            I think we first need to define whom it is supposed to be ‘perfect’ for. Perfect for us as we write here? Or perfect for the imaginary creatures, which can be shaped any way the ‘God’ of the corresponding world wants?

          • JW

            Which is why I added the exception ‘boredom’ to my statement.

            Hmm, I must have misread things. If boredom isn’t an issue and if it’s satisfying routine, then yeah, I agree there’s no reason to change things. If it’s flawless, in the literal sense of the word, there’s nothing to improve. But, it could also be an efficient, satisfying routine that does still have room for improvement, and then one could aim for that.

            this nagging feeling of ‘What if there really is some way to do it better?’. Conflict can start as small as that

            You can also feel there’s room for improvement without it “nagging”, it can be something to look forward to and anticipate. I don’t think it’s necessary to couch it in terms of conflict. Sure, people can enjoy ‘conflict’, competition, as well. So conflict isn’t necessarily negative; but I just don’t see there always being opposites conflicting.

            Eh, he’s not even 2 years old and the shows are supposed to help make him sleep, so I guess they’re doing their job.
            I trust his tastes will improve as he progresses in age.

            I don’t think anyone has ever taken my suggestion on this to heart, but I’ll keep making it anyway. Let you kid watch foreign cartoons; it’s a great way to learn an extra language. It’s how I learned English when I was five or six, and that’s helped me a lot in life.
            English and Chinese are probably the most useful, but Japan has the best cartoons 😉

            If we define a ‘perfect world’ as one without conflict, strife, hunger, pain and what not, then the sources for all of these things need to be removed.
            Essentially it all boils down to the will of the individual, because that’s the source of 99 % of the conflicts we have today.

            I would think not being brain-neutred should be part of a perfect world.

            ‘Perfect’ means, in my humble and smelly opinion, that there aren’t any aspects that leave room for improvement. A world were everyone is lobotomized is worse, all things being equal, than one where they’re not. Rather than making a world more perfect, that’s make people accept the illusion that it is; but that’s not the same thing at all.
            Unless perhaps you accept that Man is the measure of all things (but in that case you still have to deal with us, the outside observers).

            Regarding the ‘doesn’t sound perfect’…for us it doesn’t, no. Because we have all of these emotions and (more or less) free will and opinions and conflict and strife and all that stuff. We are used to having them and, as we are creatures of habit, having to give them up feels terrible for us.

            That, and we wouldn’t be human without them.
            And without free will and opinion/emotion, there would be no one to judge the world good or bad (aside from us on the outside).
            There’s definite room for improvement there; hence it’s not something I could call perfect, even imaginarily.

            However I wasn’t talking about a perfect world for us (as stated: Such a thing cannot exist), but much rather an imaginary ‘perfect world’, where none of the bad things exist.

            And none of the good.

            If we are to look for ‘perfection’ in this world of ours, I believe we would need to look towards the grand void.
            For in a single spot in the vastness of space, there is no conflict. No strife. No hatred. There’s just emptiness.

            How is that good, let alone perfection?
            Especially when you start off with defining conflict so broadly that pretty much any little thing falls under it; then how is conflict even a bad thing? If it makes for a better story, if it drives change, life, then surely it must be a part of anything that could be called perfect.

            What can exist however is a poorly written world, which is full of contradictions, where the rules are thrown out of the window at every third turn. Now tell me, would such a world be fun to read about?

            Not if it’s poorly written, no. But if it’s an exceedingly well-written world which is full of contradictions, where the rules are thrown out of the window at every third turn. Then yeah, that could be immensely fun to read.
            In fact, I’ve had lot’s a fun dreams, and they’re invariable inconsistent, full of contradiction, with rules going out the window every time I turn my back. I wouldn’t put it beyond a good writer to write a book that’s experienced like a dream.

            I think we first need to define whom it is supposed to be ‘perfect’ for. Perfect for us as we write here? Or perfect for the imaginary creatures, which can be shaped any way the ‘God’ of the corresponding world wants?

            There isn’t really a difference. A perfect world that is perfect for both is more perfect than one that is “perfect” only for a subset of subjects 😛

      • JW Reply

        It’s quite good!
        I had a bit of a hope they’d break with the trope for the first part of the anime, but eh.

        (Though personally I can’t say Ada and Robert really remind me of Taiga and who-cares-about-male-protagonists 😛 Ryu or something? I think it was tiger (Taiga) and dragon (Ryu).)

        • NotImportant NotImportant Reply

          I’ll have to see for myself then~ Ada and Robert are older so obviously they can’t act like high school kids… Similarities are probably limited.

          • Refugnic

            Oh, they can’t?

            I do remember that one Birthday E-Card, with some old geezer sitting on a mountain.
            He would say: ‘In every old person there is a young person…wondering what the hell happened!’

            So yeah, we may grow older and all that stuff, but given the right circumstances, we can be just as immature as any teenager we usually shake our head about.
            Mental maturity is not necessarily tied to physical maturity after all.

          • NotImportant NotImportant

            Please, have mercy on me! Even if my inner little girl is still same old stupid I have at least learned how to pretend to be smarter. At least that’s what I want to believe.
            So yes, both Ada and Rob can be immature, why not, we all sometimes are. God, she is even still affected by some old stories from high school, that’s not really mature, is it? But they both had pretty good jobs, they’ve both earned them, that must mean they can keep their act together for at least 16 hours a day (sleeping included) which is clearly not something a teenager can do ๏◡๏

          • Refugnic

            Oh, that’s something all of us have learned I believe. After all, it’s an integral part of growing up, to hide our childish side from sight until the time nobody watches (or cares :P).

            Eh…that’s a tricky one actually. Many of us carry scars of our past. To look past them and move on regardless is quite a difficult ordeal at times.
            Pain is a warning first and before all others. We do something, we get burned and we remember the pain for years to come, so we don’t make the same mistakes again. So yeah, I don’t think Ada still being affected by that is a ‘maturity’ thing.

            Regarding the jobs…well yes, but if the inner child is neglected too much, it’ll go on a rampage and demand some attention from the Ego and that’s a distraction most don’t really need on their plate.

            That said…they were in Marketing, weren’t they?
            My apologies, but if I compare it with the marketing division in my company…let’s just say I have more than once wondered, just what the guys up there are actually doing. But then again, they probably wonder the same about me. 😛

          • Dæmon

            “Oh, that’s something all of us have learned I believe. After all, it’s an integral part of growing up, to hide our childish side from sight until the time nobody watches (or cares :P).”
            Well, there are kids at my school (and I say kids because they’re as mature as a fricken’ toddler, despite being 16 and older) who’s say, “So what? It’s not like it’ll ever matter.” To which I would reply, and often do, “You have no God damn clue what you’re saying do you? You really think your parents will support you all your life?” And it just degenerates from there. I always swear right about then because it REALLY pisses me off that these guys have at least one job, and still think that, at 16 years of age, they’ll always be able to play games and mess around. I always have to ask, “Are you TRYING to fuck up your life right around the corner? I mean, at least cleanup your social media, and don’t start drinking like so MANY of you do! I mean, this shit affects your ENTIRE life, for the rest of your life! At least PRETEND to care, if that’s really all you can manage!” I desperately need Italics for that. Anyway, I can’t BELIEVE how many kids just throw away all opportunity in life, because of a single joke, a comment on Facebook, any number of things. Sorry for the swearing, but considering I’m in America, and I have very little thought filter for an American anyway, it really shows when I write, or draw, or anything. I don’t hold back my thoughts, so if I think you’re being an asshole, I say it, regardless if what people think is appropriate. Anyway, I should move on before I rant and rage some more on the subject.

            “Eh…that’s a tricky one actually. Many of us carry scars of our past. To look past them and move on regardless is quite a difficult ordeal at times.
            Pain is a warning first and before all others. We do something, we get burned and we remember the pain for years to come, so we don’t make the same mistakes again. So yeah, I don’t think Ada still being affected by that is a ‘maturity’ thing.”
            You’re quite right about scars coming of trauma. I mean, I’m pretty sure that if my happiest dreams are where I kill everyone, even the people I love, I need help with trauma, or just should be locked up before I explode. Still, I am at a high risk of exploding, at.least emotionally, and that’s never good. They say to watch for the quiet ones exploding, but mine could potentially be even worse, if I’ve been under enough pressure. I have always had anger management issues, which Ada might suffer from, if she gets angry easily. I was actually stuck at the emotional level of a toddler until about 14 years.of age, which I grew up surprisingly fast, coming to nearly where I am in about two months, then working farther to.where I am.

          • Dæmon

            Wait, I’m still writing! Don’t comment until I’m done, please!

          • Dæmon

            Alright, I can’t find my half finished comment, so I’ll go here:

            “Exactly what I was saying. Maybe I should’ve added that artists in general and story writers are sadists, some more, some less, simply because ‘happiness’ is plain poison for any story. I mean, who would want to read about a perfect world? ”
            What’s a sadist? I’d look it up, if it weren’t for the fact that half of the time someone my age tells me to look up something, it ends up being “inappropriate” for high schooler despite these being terms a 10 year old knows but shouldn’t, and I was one of the few who didn’t, all the way into my late teens. Still, I think it’s better than what I normally have to deal with. Not k owing what most of the sex terms kids use these days let’s me retain a part of me I’d rather keep. In other words, what little sanity I have.

            “Life itself is a continuous struggle, as such, struggling characters are far more relate-able then characters who never have to struggle, either because the world serves them anything on a silver platter or because they are just so damn good/powerful that they wouldn’t even need a world to struggle against.
            Neither of these scenarios makes for very good characters in my opinion, also because much of the story telling is about the growth of these characters and ‘growth’ is always facilitated by a necessity.” Further accentuated by,
            “Erm…I never said that it has to be some ‘great internal or external evil’. It’s just easier to have a defined enemy (ask the American and the Russians, those guys just love to hate each other according to what I hear :P).
            Anyway, as I stated above, struggles and conflicts start in the smallest scales. It arises each time two people with two different opinions meet. And, as we already established a while ago, opinions are like assholes. And to top it all off, no two opinions are exactly the same. Many are similar, but no two are ever quite the same. Our society and our entire life is based on compromises, with which we seek to avoid open conflict, but even agreeing to a compromise is a conflict between your own needs and wants and the desires of the other. Each one hurts a little bit, but are direly necessary for our society to work.” Continued with,
            “Then of course there’s that special case, where one sets the rules and everyone has to compromise. That’s a breeding ground for open conflict. On a large scale it can even be called a revolution or something. The one who doesn’t compromise inevitably become the ‘greater evil’, as he is the target of all the hurt the others had to take because they had to compromise…or much other obey to his will” Further followed by,
            “If we are to look for ‘perfection’ in this world of ours, I believe we would need to look towards the grand void.
            For in a single spot in the vastness of space, there is no conflict. No strife. No hatred. There’s just emptiness.
            So, by this logic, it would be perfect in and by itself. When adding imperfect creatures like ourselves to this spot, it becomes tainted with our imperfection and become imperfect itself until we go away again.” Okay, little confused, but moving on…

            What the Hell dies this all mean? I am lost, so could you explain the whole thing more simplistically? Both you and JW, like working together here to word it in a way I can immediately understand, because while I have a genius level IQ and a good understanding of philosophy, that ‘s not really helping me here. I mean, I can understand bits like “tainting perfection”, but I don’t understand people enough to follow this conversation. I have VERY bad social skills, so I can’t understand people’s minds, I can’t understand people’s thought process, and I can’t really try to understand social ques to begin with, so what the heck does all of that mean? I mean, for me, it’s all like a new language, and less like an earth one at that. Anyway, an explanation of what you guys mean and what you guys are trying to say would be helpful. I’ll be sure to read it again, but I don’t understand what was going on there, and what ” perfection” was defined as I the first place. I normally need a few context clues to figure it out, but it didn’t seem like you guys were talking about the same kind of perfection, so maybe a definition would help next time? Anyway, if JW and Refugnic could please explain the conversation, and set down definitions, that would help a lot. Thanks if you can, guys.

          • Refugnic

            Children don’t drink and don’t screw around. They play and have fun and one doesn’t need alcohol for that.

            Anyway, as for italics, you ought to try the HTML code for it, which is >i<Text>/i<.

            Regarding social media…whereas I life a good part of my life with the computer (being a programmer and all), I have, thus far, managed to evade the big social media. The only social network I’m on is dA. Other than that, you can mostly find me in comment sections like this one or forums.
            So yeah, compared to other people of my generation (or the generation that comes after me), my digital footprint is relatively small.

            If you yourself consider needing help, have you ever tried getting any? Not from the people around you, because those like to pretend like everything is okay, but from actual specialists, who know what they’re doing.

            Besides, they say to watch out for the quiet ones because of the saying ‘Barking dogs don’t bite’ and statistics show that those who are very loud about their discontent are already venting their anger that way. On the other hand, one who silently endures everything is like a pot with a lid on it…there’s only so much fire you can apply before the pent up steam blows the things to pieces taking everyone standing around that pot with it.

            A sadist, by general understanding, is a person that enjoys making or at least watching others suffer. Now before anyone says that this is a condition and that we need help, I need to ask you, each and everyone of the people reading this, have you truly never laughed when someone fell? It’s called ‘Schadenfreude’ and is a form of sadism. It’s a perfectly normal trait for us humans, because by watching others suffer, we feel better ourselves in comparison. (Which brings us back to ‘the reasons behind bullying’).

            It only becomes a condition, if this sadism takes dominance.
            Assume that someone slips on ice or something. You smirk, are happy that it didn’t happen to you and then you go and help them up.
            If they get hurt and don’t move, you call for a doctor.

            A ‘Sadist’ (the condition) would do no such thing. They would simply stand by and watch them suffer.
            Writers tend to have a low level version of this condition, as in, they think up situations to put their characters through. They make them suffer and take delight in it.
            Usually however, they also arrange for these characters to overcome these ordeals, which is our way of ‘helping them back up’.

            ‘Perfection’ is a very difficult topic to begin with Dämon.
            Someone once said: Perfection is not achieved, if there is nothing less to add, but much rather when there is nothing left to take away.

            I painted a terrible, blank and dull world as one, where ‘perfection’ is actually possible, because there is nothing left to take away to illustrate that we, as humans, would not want to live in a world like that. We couldn’t. Because, if we were to live in a world like that, we wouldn’t be ‘human’ any more.

            It escalated a little, I will admit.

          • JW

            I always swear right about then because it REALLY pisses me off that these guys have at least one job, and still think that, at 16 years of age, they’ll always be able to play games and mess around

            Growing up is more about controlling your impulses than getting rid of them. So you can still play games and mess around, after doing what needs to be done. There’s nothing wrong with doing a day’s work and then after dinner play video games for a few hours (provided it doesn’t interfere with household chores or raising children).

            What’s a sadist?

            Aside from what Refugnic said, you can consider it the opposite of masochist. A sadist likes to give pain, and a masochist likes to receive pains. So together they’re a match made in .. somewhere.

            I don’t agree that a sadist wouldn’t help if someone got hurt and needed help. My understanding is that aftercare is just as much a part of it as inflicting the pain. I think it’s more about control, to be the one that can give pain and take it away. And, on the opposite side, masochism is about submitting (receiving pain, but also care).

            On the other hand, I’ve never really looked into it. And while it comes up in fiction, we all know that’s not really a good guide to the stranger things in life.

            I normally need a few context clues to figure it out, but it didn’t seem like you guys were talking about the same kind of perfection, so maybe a definition would help next time?

            Yeah, you’re correct, we weren’t really talking about the same thing.
            And I’m not sure we got much closer to explaining to each other what we were talking about either, let alone that we’re up to explaining it to a third party 😛

            There are many ways to look at perfection.

            For example you could say that perfection is true perfection only if it is perfect in every dimension (where with dimension I mean any aspect you could rate it on). That’s an unqualified kind of perfection, because it’s unnecessary to say in what way it’s perfect, it’s perfect in every way.

            Another way to look at it is to qualify it. A perfect apple, for example. A perfect apple isn’t perfect in every way, e.g. it won’t cure cancer. That’s not something that’s part of being an apple. A perfect apple is perfect in all the way that make an apple an apple, like shape, taste, shine, keeping doctors away (ok, so maybe it should cure cancer).
            Likewise, a perfect human should still be human. And if we take “to err is human” to heart, then a perfect human should also be fallible. You can’t be flawless and human, so therefore you can’t be flawless and a perfect human, you’d be something else (like an angel, or a robot).

            You could also look at perfection as “optimal”, where you can’t improve one aspect without worsening another. Realistically, something can’t be perfect across all dimensions, because some of them will conflict. If you’re perfectly kind and forgiving, then you’re probably not perfectly just, because you’ll go too easy on people that have done something wrong. Perfection could be considered the optimal balance; or you could just call it “most perfect”. (But it sounds a bit odd to me to use “perfect” as a scale, going from imperfect to a tiny bit perfect, to quite perfect, to very perfect, to absolutely perfect)

          • Dæmon

            Wait so I post the HTML code IN the comment, or I code the comment in using Italics?

            Children playing around and having fun existed in my childhood, but I certainly wasn’t one of them. I mean, even today, I can’t play and laugh, because of the assholes I have to deal with. In my highschool, for instance, I had do deal with being yelled at all of class, not because it.was physical education, but because of some random idiot stealing the eraser off my desk when I wasn’t looking and throwing it at a guy next to me, then a whole table gets us yelled at for talking, and this was occurring repeatedly all of class, and then I had a teacher who was the kind of guy I can’t work with based on the fact that we are NOTHING alike, and then the end of school came, and the same shit I deal with daily had to happen AGAIN, which meant some manipulative bastard son of a bitch goes off with my brother to head home, against our agreement of the whole group, not just the three of us, to head home together, and following all that was the fact that two others left, one got a ride, and I arrived at the destination we all meet at, the end of school stuff being less than the 45 seconds it took to get to the meeting spot, and then wait ten minutes, try to get ahold of everyone, and wait another five before someone can actually contact me, and it happened to be one of my friend’s parents, who was pissed at what happened. I mean, at least TELL someone you’re supposed to meet you’re not going to be there, RIGHT?!?! GOD DAMN IT! This is what I deal with everyday, In and out of school, so it’s no wonder I want to be a sociopath when I “grow up” like no one my age has, yet SOMEHOW I have. What the HELL is going on here? Anyway, sorry about that. It was meant to be less mean, at least until I got out of school, when I nearly chewed my brother’s head off for trying to stay friends with a manipulative jackass who can’t seem to see he won’t ever be able to have friends, much less mate, without either changing his ways or getting infinite one night stands for the next decade or so. If it needs to be edited NI, please do. This was when I was pissed off, and I still am, so if it needs editing, please just cut out what needs to be, but try not to change more than that. I really think Ada’s had it rough but when the only nice people in your ENTIRE life are either family, teachers, or people from elementary and middle school, this suddenly seems like a.problem in today’s world. I hope Europe and Asia aren’t like this, because I planned on doing foreign exchange programs to those continents. Please, please don’t let them be.

          • Dæmon

            Alright, after an hour of music and deep breathing, I finally calmed down. So, of everything I said, I didn’t mention that when the teacher started yelling at us as a class, my heart rate skyrocketed. I mean, not just normal fight or flight, but like life or death sort of skyrocketed. I had adrenalin pumping, heart racing, the whole shebang. It actually reached the point that, if I stay there, it could be a danger, because if my anger problems start to act up, I could go full rampage, and we can all guess that the situation I described is VERY bad for school. I mean anger problems are one thing, but enough to make me lash out is another level, then there’s complete fucking TERROR, for everyone involved, regardless of who it is. I have had my fair share of episodes in the past, bit this, this might push me back to my old ways of lashing out at everyone, and not letting anyone get close to me, both emotionally and physically. NI, if Ada were in that sort of situation in high school, what would she have done, out of curiosity? I realize that in no way should anything she does as an adult be considered normal for our world, and is not acceptable in any way, shape, or form, regardless of shape shifting ability.

          • NotImportant NotImportant

            You asked what Ada would do so I tried to imagine her reactions a little bit… Let’s say this is at the point where she already realized that people not always think the same way she does and have different priorities in life, so after the incident in the comic which we saw two weeks ago. If she got yelled at in the class, repeatedly, because some people started throwing her things around, she would probably learn how to keep her things out of their reach and be perfectly still and ignorant about the thing, until the teacher stops associating her with the ruckus. Seriously, if getting yelled at in the class was something she disliked, she would simply sacrifice the eraser or handle those guys without counting on their understanding. Because at that point she’d think that they wouldn’t understand why she doesn’t want to play with the dumb eraser instead of paying attention to the lesson.
            If it were situation when she agreed to meet with someone she would probably wait patiently, because sometimes things happen, people get late, that’s normal. Then she would be upset because waiting is boring, maybe she would make that person wait for her next time, just to avoid being the one waiting. But later in life she would learn that most people treat only their own time as important and don’t waste a single thought to consider that someone has to wait for them. Working at the company kind of teaches you that.
            And lastly, if some of her friends, lets say Robert, had an acquaintance she absolutely despised, she would try two things. First – warning Robert about that person and explaining why she things he should keep the distance. If Rob refused to listen, she would try to understand his stance, because he probably has his reasons for making that decision. Maybe she would learn that Robert did it only to get her attention, because she was so busy lately, that she didn’t have time for him.

            Now apart from those silly visions, sometimes when I read your comments I am not sure if I should keep quiet or maybe warn you, so you are prepared for the adult life. But I have a feeling that my warning wouldn’t change anything, so maybe it doesn’t really matter. Anyway, situations you describe as very irritating are going to happen in the future as well. More often even, in more important circumstances. People are same everywhere. Being a sociopath is not something to look forward to, being a sociopath means you were unable to fit in and unable to UNDERSTAND what other people are about. As a simple exercise, try to imagine what the hell are those irritating people thinking. Because believe me, they are thinking too. They make decisions based on something. Maybe trying to understand them could help you feel less irritated. At least I always get most angry about people who do something obviously stupid and I can’t figure out why the hell they would do that.
            So go ahead and analyze them. Don’t label them as 5 years old and disregard them, that’s just lazy. Figure them out. Be able to predict them. Be prepared for them.

          • Dæmon

            Alright, I have to admit you’re right JW on the impulses, but they don’t think they have ANY (I still need a reply on the Italics, while I write this.) And they very much do, as is shown by my earlier comments in this chain of comments. I admit I have impulses, but I control them better than just about anyone I know or see short of MOST adults I meet. As for the teens I know controlling their impulses, I think that they are more like five year olds than teens. Like I said, I hope Europe and Asia aren:’t like this for you guys. That’d suck for my college plans. Anyway, JW, I think you make a good point about the impulses, so let me read the rest of it and respond accordingly.

            Okay, but what about perfect in a philosophical sense? Perfect implies that nothing is wrong, all is good. Realistically, that is impossible. What about beauty? Well, I had to do some research for making up my 9th grade English credit (I managed to fail an entire year of honors. Adjusting to high school is what I think messed me up.) so I tried to find what I could, and mostly used the documents I had to read, plus watch an episode of Ted Talks I was given, and I made an essay based on them. Now of course, there was Ted saying that the expression, “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” was scientifically incorrect, while a different piece, mostly based on a little less credible research, said the exact opposite. Of the two, I went with what Ted said, because there was better research to back it up, but I did Include a point about the other side (and WHY I disagreed with it), like I was taught. Scientifically, and perhaps philosophically, you could look at perfection of beauty to be skin deep, or all the other way around until the skin has absolutely no value at all. It all depends on what people think. Of course, that also raises questions of Sexuality, bit let’s not go there. There’s also the kinds of pertlfection (Refugnic may have said Utopia, bit I won’t bother checking) you and Refugnic answered with, yous being “perfect in every way,” and Refugnic’s being “there’s nothing left to take”, both of which can be viewed as either synonymous or complete opposites. Refugnic’s definition said some thing about perfection being a point where nothing can be taken away, while you, JW, said that perfection is point where everything is perfect. Perfect how, perfect when, perfect why? These all have to be defined, or they really aren’t that different from one another. A perfect world being one where nothing CAN be taken away is similar to one which is ” perfect” in every way, at least until you define these things and more. Socrates died asking questions like these, and I think they’re topics worth considering, at least for a day or two before commenting. If perfection is impossible, does the “rules are broken that can’t be broken” apply, or is only optimazation an attainable kind of perfection? What is perfect optimazation? Is there a be all end all for it, or does it depend on any number of things? What is “optimal” used for, and is it really the best way to do something? Is optimal flexible for different situations, like water or metal, or rigid and unmoving, like hard plastic or glass? What are these things, and who defines them to be so? The Oxford Dictionary defines “optimal” as
            1. The optimal economic position for households is represented by point B on the chart.
            2. The optimal temperature for the development of larvae is in the range 18–26˚C.
            And the word comes from Latin, Optimus, or best.

            Perfection is defined as
            1. The state of being perfect
            physical perfection
            The fish was cooked to perfection.
            The novel achieves a perfection of form that is quite new.
            His performance was perfection (= something perfect).
            2. The act of making something perfect by doing the final improvements
            They have been working on the perfection of the new model.
            And word origin being
            Middle English (in the sense ‘completeness’): via Old French from Latin perfectio(n-), from perficere ‘to complete’, from per- ‘through, completely’ + facere ‘do’.

            With this in mind, does this sound like what you’re talking about? I hope you take at least a couple of days to think first, then comment. You’re own life may answer the questions you need for you, or you may have to dig deeper into the abyss. I think I should use that last sentence someplace, like a book or short story. Or the Pirate Bard’s Tales I’m writing as a fan fiction for this. It’ll be hard, since it’s a three part monolouge, maybe, *gasp* impossible, or will this fit the situation of “breaking rules that can’t be broken”? I wonder…?

          • NotImportant NotImportant

            Dæmon please note that telling people to think at least 2-3 days before commenting and assuming that their answers were not thought about before they were posted is a little bit rude ;P Everyone has their own speed of thought, and even more than this – maybe they have some already established opinions which don’t require 2 days of contemplation to say out loud.
            Perfection is just a word we human beings invented and some people would tell you that world is perfect as it is, as it is God’s creation (lets put personal beliefs aside here, I am giving an example), perfect by design and we are simply not seeing or understanding its beauty. Others would argue that perfection does simply not exist. And Japanese believe that even though perfection is not achievable one should always try to reach it while trying and mastering the skill – everything can always be corrected, made better, more beautiful.
            Perfection and perfect world is something different for every person. It’s relative. We can share our visions but we will probably never reach the ‘answer’.

          • JW

            RE:Dæmon

            Wait so I post the HTML code IN the comment, or I code the comment in using Italics?

            Yes, you can use a limited selection of html when you post. Like i , b , del and blockquote. I use blockquote a lot for replies.

            RE:NI

            If it were situation when she agreed to meet with someone she would probably wait patiently, because sometimes things happen, people get late, that’s normal. Then she would be upset because waiting is boring, maybe she would make that person wait for her next time, just to avoid being the one waiting.

            I’d sooner die than be late. But I’ve learned not to expect the same from others, so I tend to bring a book when I expect to be waiting.
            It always remains a bit sad though, when someone says “I’ll be there at XX:00”, and I think “Ok, I’ll expect you somewhere after XX:30, then”

            As a simple exercise, try to imagine what the hell are those irritating people thinking. Because believe me, they are thinking too. They make decisions based on something. Maybe trying to understand them could help you feel less irritated

            I can recommend a number of books in this area, like “Mistakes where made (but not by me)”, or “Thinking fast and slow”. Learning about the foibles of the human mind goes a long way to building up a tolerance for people.

            Don’t label them as 5 years old and disregard them, that’s just lazy.

            Also, don’t disregard 5 year olds, they’re some of the nicest, smartest people out there 😉
            (And I hated it when adults did that.)

            RE:Dæmon

            Like I said, I hope Europe and Asia aren’t like this for you guys.

            There’s some cultural difference, but basically people are people wherever you go.

            there was Ted saying that the expression, “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” was scientifically incorrect

            Scientifically, it’s in the brain 😉

            On the one hand, there is something very subjective about beauty; people can radically disagree on it. At the same time, a lot of people also agree to a remarkable extent. It might be going a bit far to say that there is such a thing as objective beauty, but there is certainly a sort of social agreement. Which shouldn’t be that surprising when you consider that the “eye” of the beholder is trained by society and everything it sees.
            And another part is probably genetic. Things like symmetry and certain proportion (like hip-to-waist ratio) indicate good health, so it would make biological sense to find that attractive. Which, you might think, only applies to human-like things; but it will affect how our brains judge the beauty of the rest of the world as a side-effect.
            So aliens would probably disagree more with us on what’s beautiful than we do among ourselves.

            Refugnic’s definition said some thing about perfection being a point where nothing can be taken away, while you, JW, said that perfection is point where everything is perfect. Perfect how, perfect when, perfect why? These all have to be defined, or they really aren’t that different from one another.

            I think there’s a big difference between additive (improve all things to the maximum) and subtractive (remove all bad things). I’d like to have something left in my perfect world 😉

            Makes me wonder, though, could you commit the perfect crime in a perfect universe.

            If perfection is impossible, does the “rules are broken that can’t be broken” apply,

            I’m not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate?

            What is perfect optimization? Is there a be all end all for it, or does it depend on any number of things?

            In mathematics you can have perfect optimization. Within a set of constraints a function will hit a maximum or minimum somewhere. And for some types of functions it’s straightforward to find them.
            In real life it’s a lot more fuzzy. When I try to train a neural network and try to get the best performance from it, some basic limitations are the time I have (or are willing to spend) to train it, and the data I have to work with. It’s not always clear what will lead to a more optimal solution. More data might help, but that will take longer to train. A larger network might help, but it might overfit (i.e. perform better on the training data, but worse “out there”). If you don’t know how to weigh the various considerations, you can’t find the optimal balance that gives the best performance.

            And that’s life, unfortunately. There’s some rules of thumb, a lot of guessing, and hoping for the best.

            With this in mind, does this sound like what you’re talking about?

            What we’re talking about falls under definition 1. But all variations of perfection we mentioned fall under that, so it doesn’t really clarify things..

            I hope you take at least a couple of days to think first, then comment.

            Not much chance of that, this comment section moves out of view in a few days. You’d have to ask me again at some later date.

            RE:NI

            Perfection is just a word we human beings invented and some people would tell you that world is perfect as it is, as it is God’s creation (lets put personal beliefs aside here, I am giving an example),

            The optimist claims this is the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears he’s right.

            Well, as far as creating a universe goes, I couldn’t have done a better job myself.
            (And at least this one doesn’t have demons ;))

          • Dæmon

            Few clarifications I should probably be mentioning:
            A) it’s not necessarily HER stuff that’s being thrown, which knowing me, wasn’t clear at all.
            B) I was never in trouble for it, since it wasn’t my fault that it was thrown, and luckily it was a putty eraser, so it flattened on impact.
            C) I saw in the middle of a comment, while I was replying to the first, that telling people to think first is kind of rude, but it’s become pretty much a necessity for me, given I have to deal with teens and people who don’t think for themselves daily. It’s irritating that someone could be so mindless, but I can’t even begin to understand that, so I don’t try. I’ve never successfully dine it, and this is since I was a child, so I’ve had to stop trying before I start becoming an ass about it. It’s bexome another necessity in my life. Also, I am just TERRIBLE at social situations, and never know what is or is not acceptable for the situation. I really am sorry about that, but I honestly didn’t know. I mean, how could I if I was never told and have never come across that kind of thing before? And that’s not an excuse, but the truth. If I haven’t come across a social situation, I can’t try to logic it out, or I end up being rude like I was back there. I… guess I just can’t get the hang of it yet.
            D) The problem isn’t that I can’t deal with him so much as he forces himself upon us, and NONE of us like him at all. No matter what we do, he just won’t listen long enough for us to say that we don’t want to hang out. He literally says, “Look at aaaaaalllll the fucks I give” while twirling to drive the point home. It’s impossible to reason with him, and I think he knowsi it, which since that is almost exclusively the kind of person I deal with daily, excluding what teachers I have and family (except for one eight year old who just doesn’t listen to anyone) I can’t say being a sociopath, while not a good choice in life, is a better way to deal with it. Besides which, my understanding was that sociopaths have no social skills anyway, and don’t like society or anything about it, both of which fit me pretty well. I like the advancements, but not the people who made them or use the technology. It’s like a catch 22 of I like the tech, but hate everyone who uses it AND the guys who made it, because they messed up society in increasingly large amounts. I know it’s not true in the entirety of the human race, but it’s pretty accurate for my area of the US. Hopefully, it mellows down, which it hasn’t for high school (besides which, most of these people probably won’t graduate, since they never show up to class.), so I’m not sure it ever will. I mean, I had to deal with this for YEARS, and I was always told, it can only get better from here, and then it almost immediately got worse. Sorry if I offended anyone, but really, mindless Zombies for people, and jerks for classmates is frustrating, and I can handle that. It’s just that I have to adjust to the real world at the same time, and this is the reality I see. A bunch of idiots in charge a larger groups of idiots, in charge of… You get the idea. That’s all I ever see, and while I know I am pessimistic, I try and fail daily to fix that thought process. Sorry, everyone, but if people can’t be smart, and if education can’t reach us to think, want point is that to doing anything? And now I feel like I asked us all “what’s the point of living if we die?” Great, now I feel like evne more of a jerk. Sorry, but I probably should just meditate daily or something, but the problem is time, as is for most things.anyway, I need to move on.
            E) Yeah, I didn’t think about any sort of already made opinions. I thought most of JW and Refugnic’s comments regarding their discussions were thought out over at least a couple of hours. I mean, they were pretty good, and most people don’t have that kind of detail to an opinion, even if it’s little more than a fiction novel’s interpretation of something, and they are saying something someone else said. Most people I can immediately think of from my life, even adults, don’t quote anything and say it’s from somewhere else. They just take it for granted, and don’t stop to think bout what they read, like schools make us, even if we don’t do any thinking at all.
            I almost replied to the God part, when I realized, I probably won’t need to point out the religious part of that. Then I took a second and read the rest of the God thing you said.

            F) The last part of the first comment was a food poisoning t, but when you’ve tried that a couple of times.and failed for the particular person, it, at least for me, becomes a waste of time on the person, and I often don’t have the luxury of time to do that, so I try while attempting to copy down notes or do work, and it just gets a muddled up. I try agian at lunch or after school, when I can focus on it, and it still perplexes me beyond all measure I can comprehend. I try and fail,to understand a “normal” persons mind, keeping in mind that I know next to nothing about the person, and I probably need more information before I can even begin to try to understand someone, so it has taken about two years for me to understand about three kids total, with a bunch more I can’t even BEGIN to understand after half a year in the same class as them.
            Perfection is different for everyone, huh? I’d thought of that before, but it’s still just as hard to wrap my mind around as when I first heard that. It’s like something I can understand but not quite grasp at. Actually God is the same way for me. I always ask myself, “Why would a fiery require only him in his entirety to be worshipped? Couldn’t the various polytheistic religions have just as much credibility towards God, and it’s just that they split him up instead of having one whole being? It makes more sense to me to do that and allow some freedom among the flock than to require a rigurious lifestyle that has almost no fun (which isn’t quite as true today as it was in the past) and is more likely to get you to heaven?” I mean, I don’t mean any offense to anyone here, but, why does God require a single dirty instead of the parts you think suit your life best? It’s one of those things I try to understand, and I can’t quite do it. People are another thing like that. It takes me months to try to understand what someone says or thinks. And I guess names could be considered another one too. My brother researches the dumbest thing he can think of when he’s bored, and at one point it was baby names. Naming a set of twins “Fish” and “Chips” still isn’t a good name in my opinion, and it’s strange names like that that perplex me. Same goes for names that have literal meanings in some language, at least until I learn the meaning of it. There is so much I can’t grasp, and perhaps can’t even try to if I wanted, but I do try, and I think it would take way more consideration than it’s worth to try and figure some of these things out. They say there are things better left a mystery, and these are some of those mysteries for me personally. Maybe it’s just that I can understand so little about Earth and it’s society, but facts are a heck of a lot easeri for me to understand, since it’s black and white for the most part. I have a very hard time thinking in color and shades of grey. Actually, it’s a lot like a child’s mind, now that I think about it. Maybe this means something. I’ll have to think about it, ironic as that is.

            Oh, and JW had a good point t on not disregarding 5 year olds. That’s how I was treated all my life, probably because I didn’t understand most things kids my age did, and and number of other things iii life, but that’s just what I was raised to do. I try to change it, and I’ve come close, then I have to deal with what I had to yesterday. It’s a cycle I can’t stop at this point, and it’s a hard cycle to break, but I can say I have come close to changing that particular habit of mine. It’s just the end bit’s that get me on some habits.

            As for the beauty comment I made, eeeehh… I guess I should say that the particular Episode said that it’s evolution’s fault, which is partially true, as I noted in the essay. What people are attracted to can vary, bit’s it’s usually the same features overall. In fact, recently I read something, and I can’t remember where, and it may have been a comment here ironically, but it said that we are attracted to different genes to ensure diversity. Actually, I think that WAS here, now that I’ve thought about it. And it pops up somewhere else as soon as I type that. Well, my mind is like a labyrinth to mosr, and vice versa. By the way where does that phrase come from? I somehow doubt it’s in the dictionary, but I am probably wrong about that, as I usually am about languages. Anyway, anyone find it, just send me a link please.

            When I say “rules that can’t be broken actually WERE broken”, I mean some thing like the God Particle my brother told me about. Now that I think k about it, I should look it up. I’ll definitely be checking Wikipedia and several sources tonight.

            And as for ” no demons”, do you have proof of that? I’m just curious if there is some science behind “no demons exist” than the usual observation of no proven deaths by them. It’s kind of like God and whether he exists or not to me, since he can neither be proven, nor disproven.

            Again, sorry about staying to wait a couple of days to comment. It’s the only real.thing I k ow to do, since teachers have said it, parents have said it, I’ve had to say it. It’s not like I’ve met someone my age who doesn’t need to be questioned to start thinking for themselves. And as for the sociopath thing, I think I was still a little peeved at the day yesterday, and I really did think, at least yesterday, that it was better than conforming to society and it’s rules. I just can’t get the hang of any if it, especially since I k ow so little about how to even act in society. I mean, emotions are not easy for me to understand, since my mind is like black and white, on or off. Like I said earlier, A) I am still like a child, at least in terms of how I think, and B) I was speaking about yesterday when I mention the matching what I k ew of sociopaths, even though as far as I know, they feel almost no emotion, which isn’t that far off for me. I mean, I still feel emotion, but it’s dull and small at best. That’s probably why I swear as much as I do and try to compensate in my writing and then end up with it sounding dull, like the characters have little emotional capacity to begin with. Most of what I said before was out of frustrated tiredness. And I still think that, while a sociopath isn’t very good for a pathin life, it’s pretty much the only one I know that I could do if I had to interact with other people as a job. And I mean like teaching or being a psychologist, doctor, etc. I really don’t think I would be well suited for those jobs because they do take some understanding of the mind and body I just don’t have, and possibly never will. Still, maybe I could spend my days doing things like game seeing like I want, because while it’s very people friendly, I can handle that, as long as work time stays work time, and fun time is fun time. It’s just tha what I need is a little bit different from most people. Anyway, I’m out for now! Gotta think this stuff over, and it’s a heck of a lot of stuff.

          • NotImportant NotImportant

            I think no one got upset so no need to apologize this much but I kind of figured you wouldn’t realize it until I pointed it out~ And yes, it’s the same with all social situations, you just learn how to behave. I think I am a good example myself, as I was very bad with emotions (probably still am a little) and from my perspective, you are VERY emotional. I am a rather stable person, it’s really hard to make me angry or frustrated even, I rarely feel sorry for other people even if I know them, I have a hard time building friendship because people get scared off, not understanding why I am so very cold. But that’s just how I am, I have learned how to pretend and act like a normal human being, be nice, be caring and understanding, but inside there is a desert and I need more time to build a true link with someone. I need time to start caring about something.
            You see all people have little quirks and twists like this, everyone is different and, as one of my friends has said, everyone is broken in a way. Learning how to understand and really see other people is difficult but helps greatly in life. It helps to understand ourselves as well.

          • Dæmon

            Tell me, was that a bit much, NI? I mean, it’s ponder than my screen in portrait mode, which is pretty long…..

          • NotImportant NotImportant

            Yes, it was long, but I have just read through everything so it wasn’t ‘too much’ 😀 I am kind of proud, you know? Under most comics you just have those short, seemingly meaningless comments and here we are having a proper discussion, trying to understand each other, maybe give a proper advice. It is a precious thing!

          • JW

            Naming a set of twins “Fish” and “Chips” still isn’t a good name in my opinion, and it’s strange names like that that perplex me.

            Well, you’re definitely not alone there. From how some people name their children I can only conclude they don’t like them very much and want them to get bullied in school.

            I guess I should say that the particular Episode said that it’s evolution’s fault, which is partially true, as I noted in the essay.

            Makes sense.

            Speaking of which, evolution provides a good window on how humans work; or perhaps rather – try to do as little work as possible. Being an idiot is (perhaps unfortunately) not fatally detrimental to survival and reproduction. A lot of the quirks of the human mind can be explained because they work as cheap short-cuts.
            Thinking costs time and energy, and cutting such costs is one way to raise fitness. What you’ll probably see in the upcoming election in the US, for example, is people choosing a candidate because he/she looks presidential, rather than going through the tedious process of determining whether they would make a good president. Substituting a cheap intuition for an expensive deliberation makes life easier (albeit not necessarily better).

            And as for ” no demons”, do you have proof of that?

            About as much proof as I have for there not being an invisible pink unicorn looking over your shoulder.
            So no. But there is also absolutely no inkling of a reason to even consider they might exist.

            It’s kind of like God and whether he exists or not to me, since he can neither be proven, nor disproven.

            But it raises the question “which God?” (The only difference between an atheist and a monotheist is that the atheist believes in one less god.)
            And, why is God’s opinion always the same as that of the person who tells it? (And, when you look at it in an MRI-scanner does it come from the same area of the brain, unlike when they speak of someone else’s opinion).

            Religion is a very interesting phenomenon, and there’s a lot of interesting research about it. Unfortunately it’s also a rather touchy subject with some people.

            And I mean like teaching or being a psychologist, doctor, etc. I really don’t think I would be well suited for those jobs because they do take some understanding of the mind and body I just don’t have, and possibly never will.

            There’s always math and computer science.
            I think you said a while ago you had high-functioning autism? An increasing number of (tech-)companies looks to hire people with that trait, because it’s a plus for certain types of work. Even microsoft has started to look into it.
            In that respect, the options are certainly getting better these days. Maybe someday the educational system will follow.

          • Dæmon

            I don’t think “discussion” begins to cover it, NI…. I mean, I mad a single comment taller than my _phone_, on it’s own screen no less. I mean, that is a little bit strange that I can make a single comment, and it’s about two pages, or I’d guess that it is, at minimum. It’s a bit daunting to most, and I had to look at scholarships for Careers class, and I found that one scholarship needed a 250 word or less essay, which if I struggle to make an essay below two _thousand_ words, 250 is impossible until I learn to tone it down a notch when I have a maximum requirement, and I get a minimum of triple by the end of the first draft, and maybe take it down to double the max. Still, I write a normal college length essay, at least to my knowledge of what essays usually have you write. I mean, that comment was about half of an essay, and the shortest paragraph was me too tired to think hard about it, and I am preeetty that it was still long for a single paragraph, like this is. anyway, I need to move on.
            Ha! Emotional! More like mentally unstable! I’m not insulting my self there, either. I mean, I belted a kid once, and yes, I did get punched in the face, _then_ he gave back the car he stole from me (I brought my own car to the daycare, despite my mom’s warni gs, and my sharp as a katana instincts), at which point I proceeded to punch _him_ in the face, and it was with the hand holding the car. Ever since I was little, as I literally realized after typing that, I’ve been good at identifying a potential weapon, and have used it before. If I had survived being born (I was born small enough the hospital almost didn’t let my mom take me home that first day), and had lived long enough to be a soldier, as unlikely as that would be, I would have been a pretty good general with a skill like that. Anyway, all my life, for as long as I can remember, I have been able to identify a weapon I can use, and have always felt most comfortable with a weapon in hand, since when I was little I was always having to fend jerkwads off with sticks and stones. Iiiitt wasn’t a very good upbringing for a kid if that’s what it takes to feel safe. Anyway, I should stop remembering the past, though someone did say in a comment that scars of our past are _notoriously_ hard to escape. This is true, and my life pretty much proves it. Also, I hate formal situations. If I have to deal with one, I almost always end up messing up royally and offending someone. It’s fun, but only of the guy was a heartless bastard form when you were younger. I love to piss jerks off 😉 it helps me feel better about it, since they see what we have to deal with daily. Anyway, again I should move on.
            Oh, and about the names and ‘Which God’ comment, I won’t even BEGIN to go I to that, or I’m pretty much garrenteed to offend someone, which is something I avoid if I can, since I do it all to easily every day of my life. The sad part is, I live I. the Morman state of Utah, which is world renowned for it’s people being heavy on religion, as far as I know. My teacher rwent backpacking in Japan two summers ago, and she was asked constantly, only because she was from Utah, ‘Are you Morman?’ I kid you not, she said she was asked that by a fair amount of people, which surprised me. I won’t go I to which God I mean, and I meant it as an ambiguous term anyway, not as a specific God or religion. It just makes sense to me to say in that way, since as far as I can interpret, it always seems to me that that was the meaning they used, unless context says otherwise.
            So, which the evolution thing, is stupidity good, which seems counter productive, and are you so saying that it’s the reason the most effed up people usually end up running countries? Effed up is general of course. There’s no specific implications, but I see a pattern where the most despicable people end up in office, and wars start on all sides. It’s a vicious cycle, isn’t it?
            So, how do we prove the unicorn is pink though? It’s invisible, which is like transparent, but won’t less distortion. In fact, wouldn’t invisible mean that it has no color, so it couldn’t be pink? Or is it just a shade, like a ghost. Alright, I should stop there. Refugnic, what do you think about the unicorn? Is it pi k, or is it impossible to tell since it’s invisible? I need a different opinion here, please.
            As for things like coding, I haven’t even been able to literally BEGIN to start learning that because stuff comes up. As for math, maybe. I had thought I could do something like game seeing, since while it is a team thing, I can build the models off the plans, and I should be good enough to work without a problem. It becomes a problem if it gets changed halfway through development, though, as has happened to many games….
            Oh, and while I admit I like Microsoft’s products, up until after Windows 8, that is, and I also have to admit that if I knew any coding, I would probably be using Linux and Open Source products almost exclusively. I mean, I don’t use them because as has been stated by me on several occasions, I fear technology, unless given a reason I can actually act upon that says I shouldn’t feat technology. It’s a love hate relationship for technology and I. It’s frustrating to say the least.

          • JW

            So, which the evolution thing, is stupidity good, which seems counter productive

            Stupidity is the result; what’s “good” (from an evolutionary point of view only) is not wasting energy on thing that are irrelevant to survival and reproduction.

            On the other hand, there may very well be multiple strategies that are competitive. Being smart gives you a leg up on stupid people, but not on other smart people. So the marginal difference of being smart in a population of smart people is small, where is in a population of dumb people it’s large. So there’s a trade-off and you’ll end up with a mix. (Maybe. You’d have to quantify all these things and maybe run a few simulations to see what happens.)

            and are you so saying that it’s the reason the most effed up people usually end up running countries? Effed up is general of course. There’s no specific implications, but I see a pattern where the most despicable people end up in office, and wars start on all sides. It’s a vicious cycle, isn’t it?

            There’s a lot of things that contribute to incompetent and corrupt people attaining political office. Irrational decision making among voters is just one of them.

            I’ve even heard it suggested that the type of person that would want to run for office should be automatically disqualified to do so. (But I’m not sure unwilling candidates would perform better, unless they have a good sense of duty, as well as ability.)

            Anyway, you also have to consider how much time and effort you should be willing to spend determining the optimal candidate for your vote. Rationally speaking, your single vote is very unlikely to make a difference and is therefore not worth a minute of your time. So voting at all could be considered irrational. But, if just a handful of loons voted, then what sort of government would you get?

            In fact, wouldn’t invisible mean that it has no color, so it couldn’t be pink

            That’s one view on it, yes. However, if you consider how image formats work, or colors in HTML, you can actually assign color and transparency separately. Or you could consider a cloak of invisibility, underneath of which the color still exists (visible to the wearer of the cloak).
            Color as a concept isn’t very well defined in the first place; there are some great optical illusions that demonstrate this. e.g. http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2008/02/09/weekend-diversion-an-optical-illusion/

          • NotImportant NotImportant

            I was pretty sure that color isn’t subjective as it’s just part of the spectrum of light reflected by the object but apparently human eye and brain are both included in the definition of color making it impossible to define clearly. Eh, give a nice equation, add one human and everything suddenly becomes blurry…

            The color of an object is a complex result of its surface properties, its transmission properties, and its emission properties, all of which contribute to the mix of wavelengths in the light leaving the surface of the object. The perceived color is then further conditioned by the nature of the ambient illumination, and by the color properties of other objects nearby, and via other characteristics of the perceiving eye and brain.

            It would seem we have no way of saying what color that unicorn is (not for sure at least). And go a bit further and you will realize that even if you see it in all its glory you can’t be sure it exists. Because it can still be just a product of your brain ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

          • JW

            Everything might just be a product of my mind. But at least I have interesting figments of the imagination to converse with. 😛

          • NotImportant NotImportant

            Precisely~! I often argue with my mate because of that, he simply cannot understand that HE is a fragment f MY imagination, not the other way around! Absurd, isn’t it? ʕノ•ᴥ•ʔノ ︵ ┻━┻

          • Refugnic

            I will admit that I haven’t followed the entire conversation, however just my two cents on the last one from NI:

            If writers are the ‘God’ of their worlds, isn’t it quite likely, that we, the whole lot of us as we stand and chat here, are not just yet another creatures dream?
            And if it wakes, what happens to us? Do we cease to exist? Does our time stop? I cannot say. As a fact of the matter, ‘figment of the imagination’ is a very vague term, because, if our world and every world that derives from it is but a dream (and the dream within a dream and so on), then every ‘figment’ is just as real as every last one of us in its very own way.

            And, just like our selves within our dreams are not aware that they are within a dream and perceive everything around them as ‘real’, so do we. We have to.
            Because one day we will leave this world. And if this is but a dream, I dread the world we might wake up to. The world we fled from into this dream.

            But then again, all of this could be a huge pile of BS all the same. We will probably never know for sure.

          • JW

            Precisely~! I often argue with my mate because of that, he simply cannot understand that HE is a fragment f MY imagination, not the other way around! Absurd, isn’t it?

            Yeah, you probably have much better credentials for imagining characters (case in point: Replay).
            Besides, it’s quite an honour to be someone’s figment of the imagination, because that means they couldn’t think of anything better!

            If writers are the ‘God’ of their worlds, isn’t it quite likely, that we, the whole lot of us as we stand and chat here, are not just yet another creatures dream?

            No. I’ll go with Descartes’ “I think, therefore I am” and claim that in some way I am real. The only one that might be dreaming me is me, but either way I’m real.
            I’d expect the same consideration to apply to each of you. (You might consider dreaming me (because I’m ooh so dreamy 😉 ), but considering yourself the dream doesn’t make sense).

            The story works better with computer-simulations, I think.. We might be part of a computer simulation. And some would say any sufficiently advanced civilization will start computer simulations of the universe and therefore there are more simulated universes than real ones, and therefore the chance we’re in a simulated world is greater than being in the real one. BUT, that’s nonsense, because a simulation can never be the same size as the universe it’s simulated from. So the amount of simulated space-time will be vastly smaller than the real universe, and therefore that also goes for our probability of being simulated.

          • Refugnic

            Star Ocean – Till the end of time. System PS2. Spoilers ahead. Big boss: A scientist by the name of Lucifer who wants to pull the plug on the universe the protagonists stem from.
            Background plot: As described by JW. 😛

            Anyway, the likeliness doesn’t diminish nor does it conflict with what I have stated. What is a dream? A dream is basically a simulation of worlds that could be, is it not? Aren’t our brains computers of it’s own right? Or much rather: Computers are modeled after our brains but cannot quite match them yet.
            So yeah, even if it is a simulation, my statement is still ‘correct’. Except that it isn’t the dream of an organic being, but much rather that of a machine.

            Regarding the diminishing, why would it? In a simulation (or a dream), the universe, the possibilities could be nearly endless (depending on the calculation power).
            And we, as we are here today, don’t have the means to see more than just a tiny fragment of this universe that surrounds us. For all we know, it could just stop after a few billion lightyears. Or it could go on forever. Maybe it’s an enclosed continuum, meaning if you leave it on one side, you enter from the other side (much like how you could get to India if you only sailed west for long enough).
            I can’t say. However, yet another fact of the matter: We are here. This is our reality. And whatever lies beyond or outside, we can worry about when we get there.

            I think we all agree on this, don’t we? 🙂

          • JW

            Anyway, the likeliness doesn’t diminish nor does it conflict with what I have stated. What is a dream? A dream is basically a simulation of worlds that could be, is it not?

            A very, very poor simulation, perhaps.
            There is a difference between a computer and a dream of a computer; the dream does not have the same fidelity, it only has some outward similarity in function. But there is no difference between a computer and a simulation of a computer. (Anti-“strong AI” philosophers like to say that a simulation of the weather is not the same as weather, as if that’s a valid argument. But that misses the point that thinking isn’t weather, but computation (according to proponents of strong AI). )

            Or much rather: Computers are modeled after our brains but cannot quite match them yet.

            We’re still a long way from computers matching us, I think, except in some areas (which computers generally solve in a completely different way). I don’t see in what way computers are modeled after our brain though, aside from a few attempts at neural-net like architectures. Computers do things in ways that come quite unnaturally to brains (precise, methodically, serially).

            So yeah, even if it is a simulation, my statement is still ‘correct’. Except that it isn’t the dream of an organic being, but much rather that of a machine.

            (Insert obligatory “people are machines too” statement.)
            I can’t quite go along with that. A dream is something that’s experienced by the dreamer (albeit usually forgotten almost just as quickly). There no reason to think that a computer simulating a world would have to experience anything; that’s different functionality.

            Regarding the diminishing, why would it? In a simulation (or a dream), the universe, the possibilities could be nearly endless (depending on the calculation power).

            Yeah, but the calculation power is limited by the “host” universe, severely so. You can’t simulate a faster computer on a slow computer; if we could we wouldn’t need to upgrade every few years.
            A universe is just the churning of quantum-mechanical rules — computation. You can’t make it simulate something faster bigger better.

            And we, as we are here today, don’t have the means to see more than just a tiny fragment of this universe that surrounds us. For all we know, it could just stop after a few billion lightyears.

            We can only see about 14 or 15 billion years of it, so yeah, who knows. So there might be a bigger universe simulating us, but it would have to be vastly larger (in terms of computation power).

            However, yet another fact of the matter: We are here. This is our reality. And whatever lies beyond or outside, we can worry about when we get there.

            I think we all agree on this, don’t we? 🙂

            Yeah, but why postpone till tomorrow what you can worry about today 😉
            I’m not a big worried for the after-life, or beyond-life, but I think it’s a quite popular preoccupation for a lot of people.

            (Damn, that’s a long way to scroll to reply)

    • Refugnic Reply

      Now this comment makes me wonder, why she’s running in the first place.
      Is something dreadful chasing her?

        • NotImportant NotImportant Reply

          The same thing I do every night Pi-… ekhem!.. Refugnic, try to take over the world!

          • Refugnic

            Thank goodness you picked up on the cue, otherwise I probably would’ve made a complete fool of myself right there. 😀

          • NotImportant NotImportant

            I was wondering if I should play dumb but that would be too cruel~

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Hakeme

Digital painting tutorials by NotImportant. Completely free and for everyone who wish to learn - basic drawing tutorials, advanced digital paintings, videos, steps and tips!

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